Curse

Craero · Mar 14, 2007, 11:27 PM // 23:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coloneh

enemies dont run from VwK and SS

Unless they've changed the code in the last few days.... groups of more than three melee enemies DO run from VwK and SS. The worst part of it is that it is always 3 melee enemies that stay on the target and the rest run away... I have never seen any change in the amount, which makes the AoE script look even more poorly written.

Swift Thief · Mar 14, 2007, 11:36 PM // 23:36

Because we suggested this...

Steps Ascending · Mar 15, 2007, 01:54 AM // 01:54

Sorry but... who sugested it???

Sk8tborderx · Mar 15, 2007, 02:28 AM // 02:28

First of all to whoever thinks that farmers drive up the prices are idiots, plain and simple. Think about the price of ectos or shards if no one farmed them, they would sell for 20k+ guaranteed. Farmers bring the price down, that is common sense (for intelligent people). The only time farmers can drive the price up is if there is a new item/chapter out, and even then they are not driving the prices up, they simply take offers and the highest bid wins.

The farming spots I use are still not nerfed and give a lot more gold than the places that did. The only people getting affected by these nerfs are botters, 55ers, and some others who only use cookie cutter builds. I still farm with my warrior in places other classes can't and always have, the reason for that is because I know those other places will get nerfed, you just have to plan ahead or come up with new builds, it's not that difficult.

The ai change is stupid no matter what way you look at it, for example, if there were to be 20 warriors on one team and 1 55 monk on the other team, real players would not only send in 3 at a time, it makes no sense. The warriors would all attack at once to try to kill that last remaining person because it is the only option they have, they are going to die either way so it does not matter. (Looking at it in a PvP situation since that seems to be what ANET is trying to go for)

Personally I love to solo because I hate pugs and henchies, I like the challenge, like most solo farmers do. They can keep adding "elite" missions but that is no fun for me since it takes too long most of the time and I just do not feel like dealing with pugs, that is a completely different challenge all together.

explodemyheart · Mar 15, 2007, 03:32 AM // 03:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craero

Unless they've changed the code in the last few days.... groups of more than three melee enemies DO run from VwK and SS. The worst part of it is that it is always 3 melee enemies that stay on the target and the rest run away... I have never seen any change in the amount, which makes the AoE script look even more poorly written.

It's technically not the skills that the enemies run from. When they get to about 1/4 health, they run if there's more than 3 melee enemies on the 1 target. If you engage 1 enemy, that enemy will not run away. Once you've dwindled them down to 3 or less, they no longer run when low on health.

It was not poorly written, they did it that way on purpose.

manitoba1073 · Mar 15, 2007, 04:32 AM // 04:32

Yes the crystalinne farmes have been lowering prices. To bad they can only really farm purples. dont believe check out Soroows furnace and the killroy quests. each chest has a chance for a purple crystalline. Now if your pissed at the prices for gold ones well you only have Anerf to blame for that. Since they removed them from everywhere but HA.

fb2000 · Mar 15, 2007, 08:26 AM // 08:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Ernada

Wow. Only here can you see farmers demanding appreciation with the claim that they make things affordable. Some things are affordable not because farmers farm them out of the goodness of their hearts for us, but because those items were easy to obtain to begin with. When the average joe can get it himself without much trouble then it undercuts the efforts of the farmer trying to make a profit of that same item.

So where are these farmers that are farming crystallines so that they could be more affordable?

Quote:

Originally Posted by reetkever

You can't farm crystallines.

Only weapons that are uber expensive, are the ones who cannot be farmed. Like Crystallines, Elemental Swords, Colossal Scimitars etcetera.

there are ppl farming crystallines (why do you think you can actually buy decent purples for like 100k+10ectoish???). and chest runs are still considered a form of farm aint they.. so there go your ele swords and scimitars and etc

ppl even use the term "hoh chest farming"...
everything that u use (apart from stuff from merchant) has been farmed in one way or another imo.

Loviatar, are you blind dude, items prices are about 1/3 of what they used to be. why do you think that is?
ectos for example are a bit higher than 5-6 months ago. why do you think THAT is?
coz of the ai change imo

MirageMaster · Mar 15, 2007, 08:36 AM // 08:36

buh, ecto farmer will spamm his shit all day,no way even 1 farmer will sell to npc to drive prices down lol,he would screw him self.So yeah, i want my monsters dumb! I want to farm the shit out of them if i want to, thats why i payed my money for it.All those who want smart AI can go play pvp.

Jetdoc · Mar 15, 2007, 01:35 PM // 13:35

I try to solo every quest, mission, etc., WITHOUT henchmen.

Personally, I love the current AI. Not only does it discourage certain AoE cookie-cutter farming builds in many areas, it also makes enemies much easier to kill. Why?

1. The AI is so intent on running, that you can often isolate one or more of the enemies to pick off as they are all running around like chickens with their heads cut off.

2. You can use AoE spells to immediately "get the heck outta Dodge" when you're getting swamped.

If you are having difficulty against the new AI, you simply need to learn how to play against the AI better, IMO.

Obey The Cat · Mar 15, 2007, 03:06 PM // 15:06

The problem with running mobs is: While running neither they do any damage nor they cast any spell or hex. Running mobs are way easier to kill than not running mobs imho. That's why I hate the change. But I know they needed to change it cause of farming bots.

xcutioner · Mar 15, 2007, 04:40 PM // 16:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by blood4blood

Keeping in mind that change does not equal progress, I'd have to say the AI changes have been failures. They have not made PvE more difficult, more challenging, more interesting, or more fun. They have not stopped solo farming or gold-selling on eBay. They have encouraged people to use more PvP-style tactics (snaring, spiking, interrupting), they have not really brought anyone from PvE to PvP, nor have they actually made snaring/spiking/interrupting necessary (you can still simply out-damage the mobs in most areas without bothering with anything else).

What have the AI changes achieved? In combo with various skill "balances" they've made most of the AoE skills mostly useless for their basic purpose (AoE damage) but still mildly useful for another purpose (aggro control/tactical manipulation of mobs). *shrug* Nothing that cannot be or hasn't been addressed successfully by players, but still -- I cannot honestly say that any of the AI changes have improved the game at all. At most they've made certain mobs take longer to kill, and at worst, they've run roughshod over a core profession (Elementalist), an entire class of skills spanning many professions (AoE damage), and driven away many players who didn't want to bother adapting.

Overall, I'd say the AI changes have been a waste of programming time and reflect poor choices by Anet. Yes, Anet's intentions have always appeared to be to discourage solo farming and to make PvE more like PvP/attract more PvE players into PvP. They've utterly failed at both, and only managed to get people upset with unnecessary changes that have done absolutely nothing to improve gameplay. I love this game, but seriously - the AI changes have been just plain moronic ever since November '05.

I think alot of us are starting to feel this way. Anet's changes have not solved any problems and have instead annoyed people to no end with the endless parade of gestapo tactics. I've got to say WoW is looking more and more appealing as everyone I've ever known leaves GW and I'm left to play by myself in empty districts.

xcutioner · Mar 15, 2007, 04:50 PM // 16:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

want a guild hall before the sigil drop increase?....75k to a sigil FARMER

I can totally see how Anet's changes to AI behavior in PVE directly impacted sigil prices, something that only drops in PVP. Please don't ever stop posting, your words are a source of joy for all of us.

Amorfati87 · Mar 15, 2007, 05:22 PM // 17:22

Here's some things I don't particularly care for:

The monster AI seems to have not been distributed properly. For instance, trying to take out monk bosses.

The mursaat monk boss in Abbadon's will just stand there and let you hit her, she doesn't really move around all that much. Oh sure she'll move for the Meteor Shower, but not crazy running, moving just enough to not be in the AOE. She has an endless supply of energy as I'm sure most people will agree with, but that's a separate issue.

Now the monk boss in the Elona Reach mission is just freaking crazy. It runs all over the freaking place, it is constantly on the go. You wand that stupid snake and he's off to the freaking races, he's running around as if somebody let loose with Fire Storm. And no I didn't even have fire storm on my skill bar, nor did my heroes, and I didn't bring either crappy henchie Ele either. Anyway, you stop going after the monk boss and target something else and guess what, monk boss immediately stops running, heals the crap out of whomever you are trying to attack. So you turn back to him and he's back to the races.

HOW IS THIS FUN? HOW IS THIS ENTERTAINING?

What is the deal here? Is it just that Mursaat monk bosses are too cool, or are they that cocky thinking you can't kill them? Is it just a matter of them being two different species so they react differently?

Oh and another thing speaking of that Monk Mursaat boss in Abbadon's...

How many people have found it nearly impossible to beat the Monk Mursaat boss and the Elementalist Mursaat boss when they are standing next to each other? And if your team has no interrupts? You should just run past them and move on or give up and rebuild and try again.

OK, and now on to the fact that there are some bosses out there that seem to have an unlimited supply of energy. Now I ask all you good people, why the heck (insert stronger word here, you all know the one I mean) do we have so many energy burning skills? You will never drain enemies of all their energy. Oh they can drain the hell out of you, make it so you have zero energy and zero chance of getting any back. Are these just PvP only skills? Or only here to look pretty?

I realize I'm ranting and not making much sense. Then again, what makes sense these days? It's freaking 70 degrees in NYC today and tomorrow it's going to be 29 degrees and snow. God I sure hope the world isn't ending and I spent valuable time typing this stupid crap.

reetkever · Mar 15, 2007, 05:51 PM // 17:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by fb2000

there are ppl farming crystallines (why do you think you can actually buy decent purples for like 100k+10ectoish???). and chest runs are still considered a form of farm aint they.. so there go your ele swords and scimitars and etc

ppl even use the term "hoh chest farming"...
everything that u use (apart from stuff from merchant) has been farmed in one way or another imo.

Loviatar, are you blind dude, items prices are about 1/3 of what they used to be. why do you think that is?
ectos for example are a bit higher than 5-6 months ago. why do you think THAT is?
coz of the ai change imo

Well didn't count the purple crystallines, because purple isn't very popular compared to gold. What I mean is that the gold Crystallines (with chances on 15^50) can't be farmed. ^^

Colossal Scimitars can't actually be farmed, since only thing that drops them are Corsairs, and I don't think there's a good solo build for Corsairs yet? (The high level ones I mean).

And even if there was, the chance of a max damage req 9 Scimitar drop would be very very VERY small.

Same goes for Elemental Sword. They can be dropped from anything in the Desolation, but only a few people actually saw one drop. Sure, you can farm monsters in the Desolation over and over again, but it's almost impossible to get a perfect Ele Sword in that way.

Say I have an idea, next to hard and normal mode, they should also make 'circus mode'. We're actually in circus mode now, with enemies and heroes/henchies running all over the place, 1 profession being screwed over and hundreds of skills being useless.

Normal mode would be the AI before the Nightfall-release-update, cause it'd... be normal

And hard mode can be something hard. Like enemies focussing fire on 1 target and actually kill it, having enchant removals and stance removals so that tanking can't be done etc. A bit like Death On Arrival, but then a bit less hard, just easy enough so that cookie cutter isn't necessary.

Everyone would be happy!

KESKI · Mar 15, 2007, 08:58 PM // 20:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sk8tborderx

First of all to whoever thinks that farmers drive up the prices are idiots, plain and simple. Think about the price of ectos or shards if no one farmed them, they would sell for 20k+ guaranteed. Farmers bring the price down, that is common sense (for intelligent people). The only time farmers can drive the price up is if there is a new item/chapter out, and even then they are not driving the prices up, they simply take offers and the highest bid wins.

It is true that farming material will bring down the price of material.
However, the side effect of massive farming is the rapid increase of gold for a group of players among the whole community. The result should be easily spotted by the intelligent light of you, am I right??

Quote:

The ai change is stupid no matter what way you look at it, for example, if there were to be 20 warriors on one team and 1 55 monk on the other team, real players would not only send in 3 at a time, it makes no sense. The warriors would all attack at once to try to kill that last remaining person because it is the only option they have, they are going to die either way so it does not matter. (Looking at it in a PvP situation since that seems to be what ANET is trying to go for)

you mean pvp match in Chinese beta right??

A lot of them dont even know any skills outside their own classes? Give them time.
Its hard to imagine that any experience pvp melee will go head on with a 55monk knowing they cant bring them down by mindless bashing.(but I haven't been to RA for a month...so maybe the skill level took a dive again??)
the thing is, there are a lot of thing a warrior can do in pvp facing a 55 monk. one thing is to sit there and drink a cup of coffee and read a book, cause knowing 55 monk will not have the ability to out put any damage that is critical enough to kill you. In this case, A-net has not been cruel

I mean, they can kill 55 simply by giving the AI the stop attacking command on 55 monk or any build alike

And that is "similar to pvp". I am sure in the race of passion, human will not stand against machine

Not to mention a lot of pvp warrior use their 2nd profession for the purpose of pull enchantments and stop cast class

If pve is truly like or anywhere close to pvp, 55 wont even be praise

(and yes as one who do pve, I admit 55mo is a mind breaking build)

A-Net want to bring a smarter AI to pve, simple and that, and yes, by smarter they will try to make it more "life like" as they can and I doubt any muti-cell animal will "eat themselves to dead", but I doubt it is anything to make pve to pvp. If it is, it will be a lot less brutal force and better skill set up.

Quote:

Personally I love to solo because I hate pugs and henchies, I like the challenge, like most solo farmers do. They can keep adding "elite" missions but that is no fun for me since it takes too long most of the time and I just do not feel like dealing with pugs, that is a completely different challenge all together.

I thought challenge is beating harder foes, and go threw harsh situation??
accomplishment and challenge arent the same right??

I am sure comeing up with the map and build to earn 10k in 5 min its challenge, but doing that again and again knowing there is not mcuh change in such action anymore...that is just the accomplishment of "weeeee all this money are mine"

Not saying its a bad thing, but I dont think they can be mix up.
(BTW if you want crazy solo action, GOW2 is out....it was so cool I wasnt able to close my mouth for the first hour I played it...but that is if you like action game

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Now in a personal level, I like A-Net's take on making foes react in different situation(of course, they arent there yet). Even insect know stoping on a hot plat is a bad idea, and I hope I am fighting something beyond the brain of insect. However, I do belive the way of AOE work should also be improve. Take MS for example, it will bring far more tactical sense to the game play if MS target an area rather then a foe. SOJ will be a lot more useful in pve and pvp if it have shorter duration, but less energy and recharge, rather then something ppl only think about when they want to farm. And so on..... In other words, I believe there need to be a makeover on some of the skills.

Age · Mar 15, 2007, 09:51 PM // 21:51

The very reason why this was done was to it feel like you were playing and PvP style.I would say it is failing even I can't get use to it with some many red dots around me and it is a lot differerent than PvP mode.I would suggest reverting it back if you want to learn how to play PvP learn it there as in true PvP everyone has some sort of voice comm eg TS or Vent.There are those in PvE that don't have it the whole idea behind cooperative mission is just to be cooperative not to have it feel like PvP.

The Warrior is now utterly useless in PvE as they can't hold aggro as the only thing they can go after is the more softer targets.The Dervish on the other hand seems to be able to out class the Warrior in every aspect of PvE with throws them out of balance since they can go for harder targets and be able to do the droks run with no problems that the Warrior can no longer do or most of them.I won't bring the topic of farming in to this as this is normal game play we are talking about.Revert it back.

If you are PvP guild than teach you players how to play it enough said mixing the 2 just doesn't work and often creats heated debates.

Obey The Cat · Mar 15, 2007, 10:25 PM // 22:25

Agree. I pick warrior npcs/heroes for "Charge!" only.

Brian the Gladiator · Mar 15, 2007, 10:53 PM // 22:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

I won't bring the topic of farming in to this as this is normal game play we are talking about.

Actually, I am talking about farming. Did you even read the first post of the thread, the one I wrote? It is asking why does A-net discourage farmers from PvE by making AI changes to counter builds such as the solo 55 SoJ farmer, VwK solo farmer, and 55/SS combo in UW? I know that this thread has gotten a little off topic but come on, at least read what the thread is supposed to be about...

MSecorsky · Mar 15, 2007, 10:57 PM // 22:57

Simply put, in the overall gameplay, farmers are irrelevant. Who really cares if a change that makes PvE more challenging (to a degree, at least) hurts the solo farmer? Farmers tend to act as though they're a super-class of player when in fact they're a minor sub-class at best.

The more challenging they make it, the better for the vast majority.

Age · Mar 15, 2007, 11:49 PM // 23:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian the Gladiator

Actually, I am talking about farming. Did you even read the first post of the thread, the one I wrote? It is asking why does A-net discourage farmers from PvE by making AI changes to counter builds such as the solo 55 SoJ farmer, VwK solo farmer, and 55/SS combo in UW? I know that this thread has gotten a little off topic but come on, at least read what the thread is supposed to be about...

Why would they care is what you should be asking? The anwer is they don't care about Farmers they are a nuisance to them?They want you to play the game as it was intended.